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 CarolPG |
DEBATE - What would you do about knife crime? |
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Posts: 5629 (03/07/2008 23:00:06) |
Great idea of Tina's this to start off some friendly discussions - emphasis on friendly!
So .............. what would YOU do if you were in a position to do something about all the knife crime we have now? C xx |
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Cottager |
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Posts: 1912 (03/07/2008 23:01:56) |
Good topic Carol. It is difficult to control knife possession but think that as there are more police around during the turn out of pubs/clubs at weekends that
more stop and search should be done. Also when I was a youngster during the Irish troubles as there had been several bombs in B'Ham pubs every club we went
into the doormen/bouncers had the power to search everyone. This usually meant that the lads had to turn out all their pockets and the young women had their
handbags inspected. So why isn't more being done by bouncers now? It seems that several of the knife attacks have happened either inside or just outside
clubs so where were these bouncers????
Lynn xx |
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 Tina |
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Posts: 29804 (03/07/2008 23:03:43) Administrator |
Good point Lynn. The powers that be are just not bothering. All this nonsense about stop and search being an infringement of peoples privacy, I bet they would
feel differently if one of their friends or family was a victim.
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secretstamper |
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Posts: 3133 (03/07/2008 23:08:18) |
This'll get us all on our soap boxes Carol, great choice of topic.
Anyone got any ideas why this seems to be such a problem? Do you think it could be that youngsters are so used to violence on TV and computer games etc that they don't take it seriously? I did a research project on this when I was at uni a few years ago and all the research seems to show that media violence doesn't make kids violent but I'm not so sure Claire xx |
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Cottager |
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Posts: 1912 (03/07/2008 23:09:39) |
The powers that be forget that we have lived through terrorism before and that many of the laws are still in place to be used. No good saying we should now
have knives in the kitchen with blunt ends because research has shown that most of the knives being used are from kitchens. Talk about taking the easy way out.
Many knife crimes have come about because of drug related gangs - well who decided to stop tackling drugs and gangs? If both these aspects had been dealt with
severely then perhaps we would nt have such a strong culture of carrying knives and guns.
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CarolPG |
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Posts: 5629 (03/07/2008 23:12:36) |
Unfortunately, the days of getting a clip round the ear from the local bobby in the street are long gone and the kids (which is what most of them seem to be)
have no respect for authority any more. Add to that the political correctness which has now evolved and the human rights twaddle and it seems to me that
"authority" doesn't carry much clout any more.
But if I was able, the very first thing I would do is put policemen back on the streets walking the beat.............. (in two's these days). If the kids thought there was every likelihood that a policeman will wander into the street at any time, I feel they would be far less likely to get involved in fights, etc. It would certainly stop a lot of other crime as well I feel. AND give them the power to stop and search without having ten ton of paperwork to do afterwards. After all - anyone who has nothing to hide shouldn't mind being stopped - I certainly don't. C xx |
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frances |
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Posts: 3514 (03/07/2008 23:15:00) |
I feel that some of it has to do with television. So much violence on the box is purported as being the norm and a reflection on society but it seems as if
society is reflecting what is shown in soaps.
Also, if the police didn't have to spend as much time on paperwork and were allowed to do 'real policing' and being seen on the streets as they used to would this help? Do you remember the days when you respected and were in awe of the local bobby? |
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Recioy |
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Posts: 2933 (03/07/2008 23:16:56) |
I agree with everything that has been said so far. But it is not just the young who carry knives. And no, I don't think that games, films or TV have an
influence. I agree that more searches should be made and the police should have the power to do so. But most of all I think I would want to find out why these
people have a need to carry such things in the first place.
Adele x |
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janthecake |
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Posts: 8113 (03/07/2008 23:20:49) |
Not sure how to stop it now, but I'm sure that knife crime & any violent crime has soared because nobody has to face the consequences of their actions.
And I think so many, lads especially, have no strong role model to show them the way forward. It only needs one lad to carry a knife for others to think that
they then need to arm themselves for protection, & so the vicious circle begins. I'm sure that some will disagree, but 2 or 3 years national service
from the age of sixteen, would, I'm certain, give youngsters confidence & goals to aspire to.
Jan x |
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Cottager |
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Posts: 1912 (03/07/2008 23:23:45) |
Listening to a documentary on radio recently it seems that these youngsters carry weapons as a macho statement. It gives them status amongst their peer group
or the earn 'brownie' points from their fellow gang members. They see it as a similar statement to wearing the in vogue trainers or clothing.
Rationally and logically it makes no sense to us.
I do think that soaps have an effect - why do the characters have to be so aggressive? This is spilling over into reality. |
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janthecake |
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Posts: 8113 (03/07/2008 23:26:56) |
Or maybe reality is spilling over to the soaps?
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CarolPG |
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Posts: 5629 (03/07/2008 23:32:48) |
Not so sure about TV having that much of an effect - I think what has disappeared (showing my age now) are the youth clubs, scouts, boy's brigade type
things. Kids used to be able to do things after school - we were allowed to have sports days and boy, did it feel good to beat the person you really didn't
like in a race. We didn't feel the need to resort to fighting, let alone weapons. We were able to go and play outside, get rid of all that excess energy,
etc. I would never have dreamt of staying out at night past whatever time I was supposed to be home....... the kids these days are out all hours of the night
with nothing to do apart from drink............ as someone at work said today - what was a 16 year old lad doing in a nightclub at 2am? Seems to me that
discipline & respect have disappeared................. maybe national service should come back??
C xx |
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Cottager |
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Posts: 1912 (03/07/2008 23:40:33) |
I totally agree that discipline and respect have disappeared but parents of these youngsters aren't in control as they should be nor do they seem to be
willing to take responsibility for their own children.
I don't agree with national service but only from the point that why should the Armed Services have to sort out the problems of society? The Armed Services now need intelligent, responsible people; much of what is done within the services is technical not so much of the gun fodder that was required during the war time. Perhaps some kind of boot camp along the lines of those used in America and run, perhaps, by ex service personnel. Lynn xx |
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janthecake |
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Posts: 8113 (03/07/2008 23:41:51) |
Yep Carol, as I said, national service would be the making of a lot of youngsters, they'd emerge after 2 or 3 years, with a sense of disipline & the
confidence to cope in a civilized way.
J x |
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CarolPG |
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Posts: 5629 (03/07/2008 23:53:41) |
Trouble is National Service wouldn't suit every one and I'm sure that some would leave "damaged" by the experience. I doubt the country could
afford it anyway - after all they have trimmed down all the Services.
I do think that at the end of the day, the main responsibility falls to the parents. They are the ones who bring these kids up and shape them into adults. Why has the family thing, neighbours keeping an eye, etc. disappeared? I was just as likley to get shouted at by a neighbour as I was by my own parents if I was seen getting up to something I shouldn't have been! C xx |
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Lavender |
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Posts: 10233 (04/07/2008 00:02:51) |
What a fabulous discussion, thank you for starting this Carol, and to Tina for suggesting it
I don't think that anything can be done about knife crime, short of addressing the entire entity that is our 'dysfunctional' society. Society's problems are so intricately linked that it is very hard to see where to begin, but I suspect that redefining our national and individual identities would be a reasonable place to start. This would in turn give each citizen acknowledgement as a person in their own right, acknowledging that they have the right to expect respect from the rest of society and the right to live in freedom, privacy and peace. This should include everyone, children and adults alike. If we could turn the tide of disempowerment that seems so prevalent today, and give everyone the freedom to chose their own paths, it would produce a more confident, well motivated, focused and far stronger community, both on a local and national level, meaning that people would feel more connected, and therefore less isolated, hence less likely to turn on their fellow human beings. Everytime the government or powers that be try and 'help', all they do is to introduce yet more laws to stifle an already buckling country. I say loosen the grip, let people be responsible for their own actions and lives, give everyone the right to live their own lives, and watch the country grow from strength to strength. I have no doubt that the social responsibility each citizen would feel under these conditions would quash these types of crime levels. Lavender XX |
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Cottager |
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Posts: 1912 (04/07/2008 00:23:02) |
Totally agree Lavender. The 'nanny' state syndrome we are suffering from and under is a stifling one. It is stoppng people from taking responsibility
not only for their own lives but those of their children. Anything goes wrong or even awry and everyone is shouting for the government to do something. More
and more cctv cameras, identity cards etc is not the answer as I feel this creates complacency. Action is needed from society generally, police, parents etc
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orcadianprincess |
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Posts: 1001 (04/07/2008 00:25:16) |
I have a husband who is into all things Ray Mears, Bushcrafting, Scouting etc and this is a topic very close to his heart.
It is not the knives that are the problem it is the people involved in knife crime that are the problem. A knife is one of the worlds oldest tools and if the law is taken to it degree which it could be, then a craft knife is an illegal weapon if you cannot provide a Police Officer with a good reason for carrying (ie on the way to/from craft clud etc). Banning knifes in my opinion is not the answer. The Police already have enough laws in place to be able to deal with people using/carrying knives without due reason or to comit crime. My husband always carries a small pocket knife, he uses it for everything (opening packets, cutting string etc he is left handed and uses a knife where most would use scissors), however this has only recently become alien. 40 years ago most men would have carried a pocket knife but due to customs and employment changes many no longer require them. The way things are going he will not be able to carry one and he is an upright bloke! The bigger problem in my opinion is that these kids no longer have a moral code which dictates to them the difference between right and wrong and they have no understanding of the value of a human life. This problem will not go away if knives are banned. I also think that part of the problem is over protective parenting and the nanny state (I am 35) but when I was a child, kids learned from daring, fighting, getting the belt etc. Children learned cause consequence, kids got into fights at school, they learned how to defend themselves and how to stand up to or stear clear of bullies. No one ever comitted suicide because kids were cruel to them. But we also had a sort of moral code, boys usually fought one on one, playground fights didn't get to go to far, etc. I have 3 kids of my own and I have no idea what the answer is to all of this, I also hope my kids never have to experience being in a knife crime situation. I think this is the longest post I have ever done on the craft forum. lol Caroline |
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Lavender |
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Posts: 10233 (04/07/2008 00:31:41) |
Absolutely Lynn. We live in a society where it's 'always someone else's fault' - the boundaries of individual accountability are very hazy. In
particular I agree with your point about parents taking responsibility for their children. The state continually challenges parents rights and responsibilities
in their roles as protectors and educators and this is so dangerous, it's erodes family life and fragments society still further.
Lavender XX |
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Beas Nanny |
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Posts: 6199 (04/07/2008 00:33:56) |
Must admit I don't know the answer - Every time I see something on the news about another knife crime and the culprits are caught - I think to myself - why
are they so stupid. It is not macho, it is pathetic.
Perhaps we should bring back the stocks (we have still got ours in our town ) - and put anybody who carries a knife in them for people to laugh at them. If we got across the message that it wasn't macho, but that they were stupid, they might think twice. We could even throw rotten fruit at them - wonder if they would be so macho then. Of course it won't happen because it wouldn't be seen as politically correct. I also agree with Carol that the old fashioned clip round the ear by the local bobby used to do wonders. Political correctness has a lot to answer for the children's attitudes now. I noticed the difference between my two children in their teenage years. When the eledest one was at school - they had respect of their elders and their peers drummed into them. - but when the younger one was the same age - I was fed the line - well I don't have to do what you say - I can call child-line if you don't let me do it - the teachers told us so! and I shall call the police - to which my husband would reply - oh no you won't I shall call them first! fortunately he has turned out ok - and I secretly laugh at how strict he is with his child! As you will realise that was when Child-Line was very much in the forefront of the news - and yes it is a good thing for those children that are abused etc and have nobody to turn to, which was what it was set up to tackle. I think the schools have now realised their mistake and are trying to teach more responsibility - but there has always got to be a "show off", and with the designer culture that exists, youngsters seem to think that if they can't afford something they can get it by threatening somebody for it, and unfortunately it is often fuelled by alcohol. Reading back on what I have written - a thought occurred to me - perhaps we could have "Knife-Line" where people could report knife-carriers! I must admit when we had youngest granddaughter's birthday party at a local venue - I had in a bag a large knife to cut the cake up - I was actually concerned that I was carrying this, albeit for an innocent and proper use as I walked back to the car (which was actually parked outside the police station!) Hopefully I didn't look like a criminal! Mags |
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Lavender |
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Posts: 10233 (04/07/2008 00:34:35) |
Caroline, that is such a good point - that in fact anything can be made into a weapon if a person is determined enough to use it as such.
Mags, I have a Swizz Army knife that I used to carry everywhere, has scissors etc on it, but I stopped carrying it a while ago when knife crime started hitting the news more. Now, I would feel unsafe carrying it at all. Lavender XX
Last Edited By: Lavender
04/07/2008 00:38:49.
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